Report on LCM and Vidor

[squaw]

Vidor has a little running back that is so good that the only one I could compare him with is Little Joe Washington who played for Lincoln in the early 70's. He twists through tiny holes and then is gone like a flash. After the ball is snapped, there are 4 or 5 players acting like they have the ball and it confuses the defense. Very tricky. Their #9 also looks good at receiving and running. Overall, they are better at running than passing although they did have success passing at times. LCM, on the other hand, is good at both. They are very balanced and their quarterback Hunter Gonzales (#10) is very good and can also run with the ball. The score was tied 14-14 at the half when we left because it got too cold for us old people. lol We have some rough games coming--fortunately, I have faith that my Indians will prevail.

 

[pngfan66]

I heard that most of our coaching staff was at this game last night to scout both teams. I know Faircloth and staff will have the NDN's ready for LCM ! But for now lets go kick some Panther behind ! !!

 

[1989NDN]

Vidor has a little running back that is so good that the only one I could compare him with is Little Joe Washington who played for Lincoln in the early 70's. He twists through tiny holes and then is gone like a flash. After the ball is snapped, there are 4 or 5 players acting like they have the ball and it confuses the defense. Very tricky. Their #9 also looks good at receiving and running. Overall, they are better at running than passing although they did have success passing at times. LCM, on the other hand, is good at both. They are very balanced and their quarterback Hunter Gonzales (#10) is very good and can also run with the ball. The score was tied 14-14 at the half when we left because it got too cold for us old people. lol We have some rough games coming--fortunately, I have faith that my Indians will prevail.

No one should ever be compared to Little Joe Washington ... the kid from Vidor may be a decent player, but he is NOT and never will be anywhere near the level of Little Joe Washington. If the Vidor kid was all that good, then the Pirates would be better than last place. LC-M, Central, and Livingston are playoff teams ... PN-G will need to get in with that 3rd or 4th spot. We need to win out and punch our own ticket. Squaw, I admire your love for PN-G and its football history from the 1970s, and I know you are a die-hard Indian, but please do not compare anyone with Joe Washington unless you are speaking of Jamal Charles. My breakfast did not sit well after reading your comparison of Little Joe with any football player from Vidor.

 

[squaw]

OK, I'll amend that to say "last night he ran just like Little Joe Washington." Ask others who were there if you think I don't know what I'm talking about. Did you personally ever see Little Joe run? I did-many times. I also saw Jeff Bergeron outrun him and catch him from behind. He was a good running back, without a doubt, but he wasn't a God! When I speak of great ballplayers I think of some of the greats from PNG such as Gordon Lebouef and Jeff Bergeron--both All Americans. Jeff is still the best running back I've ever seen--bar none! Go Indians!! Oh, BTW, this is the first and only time I've made a comparison like this!! This boy is that good--not his fault if the team isn't all that. We had an All American (Bergeron) and went 9-1 three years in a row and then that meant no playoffs!

 

[mdog]

It appears to me that Squaw, unlike others, can't have an opinion without being bashed. There is always a few on here that will go over anything she says, even if is meant to only be praise for the Indians, to try and find a way to bash her. Squaw, keep on posting and if, you post something that you feel is noteworthy, not every one on the board thinks you only try promoting a secret agenda. I for one, appreciate any person that comes on this board that supports PNG. You previously posted on a topic, only to find out that what you posted was not entirely correct (dealing with the prayer situation), you then corrected your statement and of course you got blasted for it. I admire this in you ( admitting your mistake and correcting it ). Now, even though I have no idea who Squaw is or the ones bashing everything she says, let me have it the same way you go after her. I am only stating my own opinion, if that is OK since it may not be the same as some.

 

[IndianFan]

You're right, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Disagreeing with an opinion is not 'bashing'. In this case 1989NDN is spot on. Joe Washington was one of a kind. A running back from Vidor with 500 yards rushing this season doesn't even belong in the same sentence with Washington. And as good as Bergeron was, Washington was much better and has the college and NFL accolades to prove it.

 

[mdog]

If we are talking total football, carer you are right. If you talk about the high school level, I watched both of them play throughout their high school carers and I would have to give the edge as being the best high school athelete to Jeff. Jeff's college carer ended with a hurt ankle if I am remembering correctly. He tried to come back at Lamar but was unable to.

 

[1989NDN]

I'm not bashing anyone ... Squaw can have an opinion ... good for her. I don't care about her or any of the others that get on this message board to discuss school board politics. I don't live there so I don't take sides on those issues. I know she cares about PN-G, its students, and the communities of PN and Groves. I did not see LJW play in high school. I've met him, and thanks to ESPN Classic I've seen tapes of his games at OU, and in the NFL with San Diego. I remember watching him on TV when he played for Baltimore and Washington. Without seeing the kid from Vidor, I am quite confident he is no LJW. When college coaches and NFL scounts start saying that the kid from Vidor is like watching smoke blow through a key hole, then I will sit up and take notice.

As for LJW v. Jeff Bergeron, I'll take LJW. Jeff Bergeron was an all-american, is a PN-G great, etc. Based on the entire body of work, I'll take LJW. No disrespect to Jeff Bergeron ... or the kid from Vidor, who with all of 500 yards rushing is the next LJW. I'm not one to buy into hype. Most high school players are average at best ... some are very good ... very few are great ... and less than 0.5% should be compared to the all-time greats like LJW, Cedric Benson, Billy Sims, Earl Campbell, etc.

 

[ingainerYYZ]

Jeff Bergeron & LJW are definitely in a class by themselves.

 

[IndianFan]

Definitely. The difference is Bergeron is a PN-G legend. Washington is a high school legend, college legend and NFL great.

 

[squaw]

Actually, when I compared Vidor's RB to LJW I was speaking of running style. He runs like Washington.He could scramble and find a hole. Also, Jeff Bergeron was better, in my opinion, but his mother was a single mother who was having a hard time financially and things such as this play a part when someone goes into sports beyond the high school level. That said, you would've had to see him play to know how special he was. He had a natural born talent and I have not seen another running back as spectacular as Jeff. He didn't have to find a hole, he just made one and was gone in a flash. He didn't need to scramble like LJW.

 

[nissanindian]

this is getting old what eles did we see at the lcm vidor game ?????? any mistakes

 

[squaw]

On a good note, I think we can beat Vidor if we play our game and make the QB pass. He makes some, but overthrows a lot. Our defense will have to have their head in the game and watch where the ball goes. On almost every snap at least 3 or 4 (sometimes more) act like they have the ball. It is tricky and we got confused watching at times and so did LCM's defense. Our defense will have to be very astute. LCM's QB can throw accurately, can run with the ball and their team is more balanced than Vidor. That said, we'll be there screaming for our Indians Friday night (if I ever get my voice back from the Ozen game). We'll see what tricks our coach has planned for them.

 

[bark]

Bergeron left UH- not his ankle, SFA - not his ankle and then Lamar - don't remember why. In my opinion, No way you can compare him to LJW, All American at HS and College level then terrific Pro career. I saw them both play, never remember Bergeron catching LJW ( Bergeron did not play defense) although he may have been able to.

 

[MOM2INDIANS]

Did you see #12 on the Ozen side...he was tiny...and when he tried to block one of our players..lol....but he could move that ball.

 

[pngfanatic]

squaw is 100% correct about Jeff Bergeron catching Joe Washington from behind. I was there at the game in 1971 and witnessed that play. It happened near the end of the first half - Bergeron had been inserted into the defensive backfield specifically to prevent a long gain by Lincoln. Little Joe made a couple of his unbelievable moves and was headed for a TD. Bergeron came from the other side of the field and easily caught him from behind. Believe me there was a collective gasp from the Lincoln stands when that happened. BTW that play is on the Glory Days DVD created by Beau Freyou if anyone needs further evidence.

As far as who was the best runner, my opinion is that they were both great, but very different runners. Little Joe had great balance and lateral movement. I never saw him take a direct hit - at least not in high school or college. He was very quick, but not that fast (10.5 or so in the 100). Jeff was bigger and much faster - more of a slasher/sprinter like Tony Dorsett. He was called the Jet for a reason - he had elite speed 4.3/4.4 in the 40 and 9.5 in the 100. He was also a very tough and strong inside runner. One of my friends who played with Jeff at Lamar said that Jeff hit him harder than any other runner he ever tackled.

Little Joe certainly had much better success at the college and pro levels. But don't forget that Jeff was still drafted by Seattle in 1978 despite his disappointing college career. I don't know all of circumstances that kept Jeff from becoming a great college and pro player, but it certainly wasn't lack of talent. Jeff Bergeron was/is by far the best athlete (and runner) ever produced by PNG. I wish all of you could have seen him run in person. I think that might help you understand why some of us hold Jeff in such high esteem. He was an awesome player.

 

[1989NDN]

squaw is 100% correct about Jeff Bergeron catching Joe Washington from behind. I was there at the game in 1971 and witnessed that play. It happened near the end of the first half - Bergeron had been inserted into the defensive backfield specifically to prevent a long gain by Lincoln. Little Joe made a couple of his unbelievable moves and was headed for a TD. Bergeron came from the other side of the field and easily caught him from behind. Believe me there was a collective gasp from the Lincoln stands when that happened. BTW that play is on the Glory Days DVD created by Beau Freyou if anyone needs further evidence.

As far as who was the best runner, my opinion is that they were both great, but very different runners. Little Joe had great balance and lateral movement. I never saw him take a direct hit - at least not in high school or college. He was very quick, but not that fast (10.5 or so in the 100). Jeff was bigger and much faster - more of a slasher/sprinter like Tony Dorsett. He was called the Jet for a reason - he had elite speed 4.3/4.4 in the 40 and 9.5 in the 100. He was also a very tough and strong inside runner. One of my friends who played with Jeff at Lamar said that Jeff hit him harder than any other runner he ever tackled.

Little Joe certainly had much better success at the college and pro levels. But don't forget that Jeff was still drafted by Seattle in 1978 despite his disappointing college career. I don't know all of circumstances that kept Jeff from becoming a great college and pro player, but it certainly wasn't lack of talent. Jeff Bergeron was/is by far the best athlete (and runner) ever produced by PNG. I wish all of you could have seen him run in person. I think that might help you understand why some of us hold Jeff in such high esteem. He was an awesome player.

Excellent post.

 

[PNGROW4650YRDLN]

squaw is 100% correct about Jeff Bergeron catching Joe Washington from behind. I was there at the game in 1971 and witnessed that play. It happened near the end of the first half - Bergeron had been inserted into the defensive backfield specifically to prevent a long gain by Lincoln. Little Joe made a couple of his unbelievable moves and was headed for a TD. Bergeron came from the other side of the field and easily caught him from behind. Believe me there was a collective gasp from the Lincoln stands when that happened. BTW that play is on the Glory Days DVD created by Beau Freyou if anyone needs further evidence.

As far as who was the best runner, my opinion is that they were both great, but very different runners. Little Joe had great balance and lateral movement. I never saw him take a direct hit - at least not in high school or college. He was very quick, but not that fast (10.5 or so in the 100). Jeff was bigger and much faster - more of a slasher/sprinter like Tony Dorsett. He was called the Jet for a reason - he had elite speed 4.3/4.4 in the 40 and 9.5 in the 100. He was also a very tough and strong inside runner. One of my friends who played with Jeff at Lamar said that Jeff hit him harder than any other runner he ever tackled.

Little Joe certainly had much better success at the college and pro levels. But don't forget that Jeff was still drafted by Seattle in 1978 despite his disappointing college career. I don't know all of circumstances that kept Jeff from becoming a great college and pro player, but it certainly wasn't lack of talent. Jeff Bergeron was/is by far the best athlete (and runner) ever produced by PNG. I wish all of you could have seen him run in person. I think that might help you understand why some of us hold Jeff in such high esteem. He was an awesome player.

I went to school with Jeff and we were Juniors in 1971. I remember that game and the fact that Jeff caught Little Joe Washington. It was amazing.

 

[IndianFan]

I was lucky enough to see both Bergeron and Washington play and was also at that game. And I was one of those kids with a #24 jersey. That was a unique period in SE Texas football.

 

[ingainerYYZ]

good post pngfanatic.