Washington Redskins

IndianFan

Web Guy
This isn't a PN-G specific topic, but it's relevant because of the name controversy.

Who the h*ll asked this joker his opinion, and doesn't he have better things to do? The social engineering continues, and another distraction is put out there while he continues executing his plan to destroy everything good about this country. :flaming: (Am I bitter and angry, and sickened that anyone other than system leaches could have voted for this guy... yeah, you could say that.)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9772653/president-obama-washington-redskins-legitimate-concerns

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_REDSKINS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-05-10-21-17
 

pngfan66

500+ Posts
Ditto!!!! Tired of the PC crap all the time. To me a team taking on a native american name is a Honor. It shows respect and admiration, not disrespect. I, like many friends are tired of the BS that flies around about being PC all the time. GO INDIANS ! Glad PNG has the backing of the Cherokee nation. I grew up in the 4 corners area of the country, we had several Indian tribes in the area along with reservations. Numerous teams there were named after tribes. No problems there about it. So are they going to go after the Utah Utes next, what about the teams in the Dakota's ? This country is going to PC itself into a generic socialist format and no one will be able to even give a compliment without it being offensive. Our liberties and rights and freedoms are being taken from us in small chunks. Before long our constitution will be nothing more that a historical piece of paper that has no meaning left to it.
Keep the Redskins name. It is not hurting anyone. If it is such a big problem then why was there no problem with it when the team was named the "Redskins". Why is it now such a issue ? Why?, My take, because people have to much time on their hands and receive way to much subsidies for this BS.
 

NDNTime

1,000+ Posts
What a joke! And ESPN continues to use their monopoly on the sports media to fuel its liberal agenda within sports. We don't watch, listen, and read about sports for this political bs. Stick to sports or get off of my TV!
 

15PNG

500+ Posts
pngfan66 said:
Ditto!!!! Tired of the PC crap all the time. To me a team taking on a native american name is a Honor. It shows respect and admiration, not disrespect. I, like many friends are tired of the BS that flies around about being PC all the time. GO INDIANS ! Glad PNG has the backing of the Cherokee nation. I grew up in the 4 corners area of the country, we had several Indian tribes in the area along with reservations. Numerous teams there were named after tribes. No problems there about it. So are they going to go after the Utah Utes next, what about the teams in the Dakota's ? This country is going to PC itself into a generic socialist format and no one will be able to even give a compliment without it being offensive. Our liberties and rights and freedoms are being taken from us in small chunks. Before long our constitution will be nothing more that a historical piece of paper that has no meaning left to it.
Keep the Redskins name. It is not hurting anyone. If it is such a big problem then why was there no problem with it when the team was named the "Redskins". Why is it now such a issue ? Why?, My take, because people have to much time on their hands and receive way to much subsidies for this BS.


Yes, this one is near and dear to me. I too am completely sick of the PC BS. So how's this for irony. I am half Scottish and half Irish and proud of that fact like anyone one else. So, should I be in a freakin uproar over the fact that there is a team named the Highland Park Scots, dressed in kilts?! I am also Irish, so should I be upset over the fact that there are the Norte Dame "FIGHTING" Irish? That doesn't paint us/me in a very good light. I am the victim of 'racism' apparently and didn't even know it. No, it's because it doesn't bother me......AT ALL.

I'm calling Al and Jessie..............be right back..............
 

bandkid

Moderator
Staff member
I've got some Irish in me, too, and I'm nowhere near offended by Notre Dame's mascot. Change the outcome of the national championship last season and that might be a different story. ;D

But more seriously and more pertinently, I've also got some Cherokee in me. If anything, I'm proud of the fact that schools like PN-G, El Paso Ysleta and Florida State, and teams like the Cleveland Indians and the Washington Redskins choose to use American Indian likenesses for their team names and mascots. They don't choose their names to make a mockery of the American Indian, they do so for two reasons: first, because the areas these teams call home typically have some historical connection to American Indian Tribes, and second, because the story of many of those tribes exhibit the kind of unity, determination and undying spirit we've come to expect in the sports arena. If anything, that's a sign of respect, not belittlement.
 

pngfanatic

100+ Posts
PN-G responds to Adidas' offer to change Indian mascot

Port Neches-Groves ISD's response to Adidas' offer to change their logo and mascot couldn't be more clear.

Absolutely not, said Superintendent Rodney Cavness.

Adidas, a German multinational sportswear corporation, announced last week that it would give free design resources and financial assistance to any of the about 2,000 high schools in the country that use a logo or mascot drawn from Native American imagery or symbolism.

Cavness said PN-G will be keeping its Indian Spirit mascot and Indian logo.

"Changing it would be tapering down to political correctness of leftist extremists and we're not going to do that here," he said.

The Adidas offer is voluntary for high schools interested in changing their identities, but lack the resources to do so, according to a company news release.

Cavness said there is no controversy over Native American mascots or the proposed statue in his district.

"We're not doing anything to hurt anybody, to offend anyone," he said. "If they are (offended), they don't have to come here."

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/PN-G-responds-to-Adidas-offer-to-change-Indian-6620605.php#photo-8931149
 

prepballfan

There's No Place Like The Reservation Friday Night
Staff member
I had a family tree dna test performed on my paternal lines both mt full sequences and the y 111 test performed.... I found out that I am 98% from Ireland/Scottland/Norther England..........Now I have the right to be offended
 

IndianFan

Web Guy
Adidas execs also made the following comments.


"Sports have the power to change lives," said Eric Liedtke, Adidas Group executive board member ahead of a White House Tribal Nations Conference last week. "Sports give young people limitless potential. Young athletes have hope, they have desire and they have a will to win. Importantly, sports must be inclusive. Today we are harnessing the influence of sports in our culture to lead change for our communities. Adidas is proud to provide a pathway for high schools and communities who want to create new identities."


Theses comments are nothing but Adidas PR and marketing hype. Newsflash to Eric Liedtke; sports, and the power of sports to change lives as he phrased it, have nothing to do with Adidas, Nike, Converse, or any other sports apparel company.


This is total self promoting BS. Sports, and the character building aspects of teamwork and dedication to excellence that is core to team sports, existed long before Adidas. And Adidas does nothing to deserve credit for either.


Another newsflash to this guy, sports for the majority of us is a short term activity. Wearing Adidas gear does not punch a ticket for a scholarship, or pro sports career. Sports is not a limitless opportunity. Potential in life is directly related to personal commitment to achievement. Being mentored and taught by quality coaches teaches character and how to overcome adversity. Not Adidas .


And the funniest image of all, a shoe company changing the identity of a school or community.
 

bandkid

Moderator
Staff member
I want to start this by saying that I agree with the part about why Adidas is actually doing this. It has nothing to do with any supposed corporate altruism. This a marketing ploy, pure and simple. That aside....

In law school, there's a phrase you often read in court cases.

"Justice _______, concurring in the judgment."

Normally, it precedes the opinion of a justice who agrees with the judgment the majority arrived at, but disagrees with the arguments the majority puts forth to get there. I don't think I've ever understood the concept of agreeing with a final answer but vehemently disagreeing with the rationale used to get it as well as I do right now.

Anybody who knows me, has ever discussed this issue with me, has ever read any of my posts on this messageboard about this or has simply taken a look at my Facebook on a Friday during football season knows exactly where I stand on this issue. PN-G has always used and will always use the team name "Indians," and rightfully so. I say that as a man of Cherokee descent, who's grown up hearing the stories about the struggles his great-grandfather went through due to his race. I have my reasons, and I've explained them in a good dozen or so posts on various sites before, so I'm not going to detail them here. Just suffice it to say that I don't buy into all the "cultural appropriation" nonsense, particularly as applied to this case.

The issue I take here is not that Dr. Cavness, defended PN-G's use of the American Indian likeness - by all means, I hope he continues to do so. The issue I take here is the way he defended it. To sum up Dr. Cavness's statements, PN-G isn't changing the name because we're not going to kowtow to "leftist extremists" and their "political correctness."

The first issue that should be parsed out here is that a superintendent of a school district - a governing entity that serves children of families left, right and inbetween on the political spectrum - just generalized and attacked an entire side of the aisle. Regardless of the fact that this is an educator, this is a public servant, and anytime a public servant does something like this, it crosses a very important ethical and professional boundary between partisan rhetoric and political neutrality which public servants are honor bound to adhere to. Furthermore, it calls into question the objectivity of that servant and any public agency that servant runs. In this case, that happens to be an entire public school district. How can we be sure that the children of those "leftist extremists," i.e., Democrats, are getting a fair and impartial education in PN-GISD? How can we be sure that they aren't suffering some kind of Republican indoctrination?

Of course, anybody who actually lives in Port Neches or Groves or has seen a PN-GISD teacher teach knows that there's no indoctrination or political partiality happening there - that if anything, PN-G offers the best education of any public school in Southeast Texas to students of all different upbringings. But that's beside the point, which is that statements like these call that education into question regardless of whether those concerns are legitimate. In effect, they're a stain on the district's reputation. They open PN-GISD up to accusations of political proselytization, akin to what happened in BISD a few years ago when district employees were caught hosting school-sponsored "get out the vote" campaigns staffed by students specifically to reelect sitting school board members. Nobody wants PN-G to be in that boat, and to put us there is markedly unprofessional.

The second issue that comes up here is the way this makes the district look. Imagine if the national media saw this. What would happen to PN-GISD? How would they portray us? How would they construe these comments?

PN-G is known around the state of Texas. Specifically, PN-G has a reputation for strong academics, for a fight song that people never forget, for shattering all kinds of attendance records and generally being a phenomenon among public schools in terms of community support and involvement, and for three very important words: honor, pride and tradition. Do we want that reputation ruined? Because comments like these put us at risk of losing it - they literally hand the people who want to take this from us the ammunition they need to do it.

That said, those two issues are not the most important ones raised by this article. The third and most concerning issue raised here is that in an article explaining why PN-G isn't changing its team name, the rationale given was entirely based in political rhetoric and not based on actual facts. This is particularly concerning given PN-G's proud history.

The original reason the team name "Indians" was chosen for the PN-G football team in 1925 is that Port Neches was originally settled by Attakapa and Karankawa Indians, who lived there for approximately 1,500 years before abandoning the area around 1780. Was that mentioned here? No.

When the name was adopted, Port Neches was covered in old Indian mounds which were excavated by archaeologists over the years that followed. It is not uncommon to come across arrowheads and shards of pottery in Port Neches today, decades later. Was that mentioned here? No.

Were any of PN-G's treasured traditions mentioned as reasons for sustaining the team name? Was it mentioned that in 1980, the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma was so impressed with the honor and the pride exhibited by PN-G's students, staff and faculty in representing the American Indian likeness that its chief saw fit to proclaim the PN-G Indians "Ambassadors of Goodwill" on behalf of their tribe - in effect, to extend their sacred heritage to encompass everything we hold dear at PN-G and allow us to represent them to the world? No. Why? The only thing I can figure is that these days, it's apparently more important that we fight liberal extremism than carry on the tradition that earned us this incredible privilege and noble duty.

I will go to my grave defending PN-G on this issue, but folks, let's be clear on one thing. We have to do this for the right reasons. Those reasons have nothing to do with politics.
 

IndianFan

Web Guy
My previous remark was too harsh. But I did have the same gut reaction to his comments. Surely he can provide a more eloquent response.
 

pngfanatic

100+ Posts
I agree that the complete response would have included the historical significance of the Indian mascot. However, I totally agree with the non-PC comments of Superintendent Cavness. The last thing we need is a European company "creating new identities" by throwing money at our school districts. And I couldn't care less how the mainstream media construes Cavness' comments. I commend him for standing up and stating the obvious.
 

bandkid

Moderator
Staff member
pngfanatic said:
I agree that the complete response would have included the historical significance of the Indian mascot. However, I totally agree with the non-PC comments of Superintendent Cavness. The last thing we need is a European company "creating new identities" by throwing money at our school districts. And I couldn't care less how the mainstream media construes Cavness' comments. I commend him for standing up and stating the obvious.

This isn't a matter of whether you agree with Cavness's sentiments as expressed in that article. Personally, I agree with Cavness. I'm a law school student at UT. I deal with political correctness the likes of which Southeast Texas has never seen on a daily basis (if you don't believe me, check out the opinions section of The Daily Texan sometime). I hate it more than you and Dr. Cavness combined, I guarantee you.

Instead, this is a matter of whether it was appropriate for a public servant to make a comment like that in representing a public school district. It was not. This is a matter of how those comments affect the reputation of PN-GISD. Summed up: badly. It's a matter of how this makes people outside of PN-G, who don't know our history and don't know why we use this team name, perceive our use of the American Indian likeness. Do words like "ignorant," "culturally insensitive" and "racist" mean anything to you? Because like it or not, they do to John Q. Public, and like it or not, John Q. Public can put an end to the Indians in a heartbeat.

When new families move into Southeast Texas and are looking at communities to buy a home in, how's it going to look when they Google PN-GISD and this comes up? What are they going to think? How are they going to perceive stuff like this when they don't have the full story and can't put the Indians and all of our traditions in context, and instead just have comments about "leftist extremism" from, of all people, our superintendent? Are they going to look at us like we're accustomed to having people look at PN-G, or are they going to start looking at us a lot more like we look at Vidor and Evadale? And when those families decide to steer clear of PN-G, how do you think that affects property values? How do you think that affects the quality of students coming to PN-G schools, the revenue flowing into PN-GISD and the quality of education and extracurricular programs PN-G offers?

Earlier this year in a separate Beaumont Enterprise article, the head of the Native American & Indigenous Studies program here at UT, herself a woman of American Indian descent, lambasted PN-G specifically for using the American Indian likeness. If, and more likely when, she sees this, how do you think she's going to react? And most importantly, who do you think she's going to tell? Maybe her friends in various American Indian tribes around Texas and the rest of the country? Maybe her fellow professors in NAIS, who themselves also have friends in American Indian tribes that they're likely to discuss this with at some point? How much do you think she would love to use Dr. Cavness's comments to prove all of her asinine points about how racist we are? How much more seriously do you think people will take those arguments in light of this?

What if this gets back to the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, the sovereign Indian tribe that gave PN-G its blessing in 1980? Put yourself in their shoes. What do you think goes through their minds when they read something like this? The letter attached to the proclamation they gave us, which was written by their chief, mentioned the honor and the pride PN-G carries itself with, specifically. If they read this, don't you think they're going to ask themselves if something's changed in the last 35 years? Maybe they'll have a hint of regret for issuing that proclamation? Maybe enough to revoke it?

How do you think this looks to people outside of Southeast Texas who don't know much, if anything, about PN-G? What do you think they'll say to each other? What do you think the reputation of PN-G will be in their minds? I hope you don't think it will have anything to do with Cherokee, or our phenomenal community support, because it won't, and it already doesn't. Two separate UT law students approached me today about Cavness's comments, specifically. There's a Nederland alum in my own section that has already started sharing the Enterprise article with other students. What do you think is running through their minds right now? What do you think has been running through my mind, even as a proud PN-G graduate? How do you think I've felt spending these last 24 hours doing damage control for my alma mater?

I mentioned the national media in my previous post. How much do you think they would love to use this every time the mascot issue comes up, which it does every few years or so? And while you're considering that question...

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/the-state-of-texas-november-11-2015/

... keep in mind that we're now one step closer to primetime. Are you prepared to have PN-G at the center of every on-air discussion hosted by Wolf Blitzer, Al Sharpton and Sean Hannity? Are you prepared to have PN-G's name drug the mud on MSNBC, slandered on The View and quasi-glorified on Fox for weeks on end? Are you prepared to go from reading statements like this in local newspapers to seeing Dr. Cavness give them live on national television? Are you prepared to go from spending Friday nights watching high school football to spending weeks, months or perhaps years playing political football? I'm warning you now, that game's a lot less fun.

I hope you really are happy with those comments, because they may very well have just turned PN-G into the whipping boy for the mascot issue in this state.
 

prepballfan

There's No Place Like The Reservation Friday Night
Staff member
The reason we are named the Indians is beacuse of a settlement of Indians in Port Neches.
 

prepballfan

There's No Place Like The Reservation Friday Night
Staff member
Anyone who doesn't consider all of the facts in the case shouldn't be speaking on it. This country is going down the crapper right now!!!!
 

pngfanatic

100+ Posts
PN-G bamatex said:
pngfanatic said:
I agree that the complete response would have included the historical significance of the Indian mascot. However, I totally agree with the non-PC comments of Superintendent Cavness. The last thing we need is a European company "creating new identities" by throwing money at our school districts. And I couldn't care less how the mainstream media construes Cavness' comments. I commend him for standing up and stating the obvious.

This isn't a matter of whether you agree with Cavness's sentiments as expressed in that article. Personally, I agree with Cavness. I'm a law school student at UT. I deal with political correctness the likes of which Southeast Texas has never seen on a daily basis (if you don't believe me, check out the opinions section of The Daily Texan sometime). I hate it more than you and Dr. Cavness combined, I guarantee you.

Instead, this is a matter of whether it was appropriate for a public servant to make a comment like that in representing a public school district. It was not. This is a matter of how those comments affect the reputation of PN-GISD. Summed up: badly. It's a matter of how this makes people outside of PN-G, who don't know our history and don't know why we use this team name, perceive our use of the American Indian likeness. Do words like "ignorant," "culturally insensitive" and "racist" mean anything to you? Because like it or not, they do to John Q. Public, and like it or not, John Q. Public can put an end to the Indians in a heartbeat.

When new families move into Southeast Texas and are looking at communities to buy a home in, how's it going to look when they Google PN-GISD and this comes up? What are they going to think? How are they going to perceive stuff like this when they don't have the full story and can't put the Indians and all of our traditions in context, and instead just have comments about "leftist extremism" from, of all people, our superintendent? Are they going to look at us like we're accustomed to having people look at PN-G, or are they going to start looking at us a lot more like we look at Vidor and Evadale? And when those families decide to steer clear of PN-G, how do you think that affects property values? How do you think that affects the quality of students coming to PN-G schools, the revenue flowing into PN-GISD and the quality of education and extracurricular programs PN-G offers?

Earlier this year in a separate Beaumont Enterprise article, the head of the Native American & Indigenous Studies program here at UT, herself a woman of American Indian descent, lambasted PN-G specifically for using the American Indian likeness. If, and more likely when, she sees this, how do you think she's going to react? And most importantly, who do you think she's going to tell? Maybe her friends in various American Indian tribes around Texas and the rest of the country? Maybe her fellow professors in NAIS, who themselves also have friends in American Indian tribes that they're likely to discuss this with at some point? How much do you think she would love to use Dr. Cavness's comments to prove all of her asinine points about how racist we are? How much more seriously do you think people will take those arguments in light of this?

What if this gets back to the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, the sovereign Indian tribe that gave PN-G its blessing in 1980? Put yourself in their shoes. What do you think goes through their minds when they read something like this? The letter attached to the proclamation they gave us, which was written by their chief, mentioned the honor and the pride PN-G carries itself with, specifically. If they read this, don't you think they're going to ask themselves if something's changed in the last 35 years? Maybe they'll have a hint of regret for issuing that proclamation? Maybe enough to revoke it?

How do you think this looks to people outside of Southeast Texas who don't know much, if anything, about PN-G? What do you think they'll say to each other? What do you think the reputation of PN-G will be in their minds? I hope you don't think it will have anything to do with Cherokee, or our phenomenal community support, because it won't, and it already doesn't. Two separate UT law students approached me today about Cavness's comments, specifically. There's a Nederland alum in my own section that has already started sharing the Enterprise article with other students. What do you think is running through their minds right now? What do you think has been running through my mind, even as a proud PN-G graduate? How do you think I've felt spending these last 24 hours doing damage control for my alma mater?

I mentioned the national media in my previous post. How much do you think they would love to use this every time the mascot issue comes up, which it does every few years or so? And while you're considering that question...

http://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/the-state-of-texas-november-11-2015/

... keep in mind that we're now one step closer to primetime. Are you prepared to have PN-G at the center of every on-air discussion hosted by Wolf Blitzer, Al Sharpton and Sean Hannity? Are you prepared to have PN-G's name drug the mud on MSNBC, slandered on The View and quasi-glorified on Fox for weeks on end? Are you prepared to go from reading statements like this in local newspapers to seeing Dr. Cavness give them live on national television? Are you prepared to go from spending Friday nights watching high school football to spending weeks, months or perhaps years playing political football? I'm warning you now, that game's a lot less fun.

I hope you really are happy with those comments, because they may very well have just turned PN-G into the whipping boy for the mascot issue in this state.

Now that the season's over ...

Yes, I'm really happy with my support of Dr. Cavness. This country would be a lot better off if those of us with traditional values weren't so reluctant to speak out because of the PC police. If you think trying to assuage the progressives in this country is a winning strategy, then you are sadly mistaken. They are relentless in their desire to impose their radical ideas on the rest of us - i.e. "fundamentally change this country". Rather than doing "damage control", I see situations like this as an opportunity to present a point of view that many are seldom exposed to. They're certainly not going to hear it from the mainstream media or academia.

I also sent a email of support to Dr. Cavness. In his response, he expressed his love of PNG and the "salt of the earth blue collar people" in the area. I couldn't agree more and wish we had more individuals like that here in Tampa. I think his attitude actually attracts more families to Port Neches and Groves than it discourages. If having an Indian mascot really causes someone to consider living elsewhere, as Dr. Cavness stated, "if they are offended, they don't have to come here".

And, as far as I can tell, the sky hasn't fallen yet. But if the "leftist extremists" decide to attack, my hope is that, through strong leadership and conviction, PNG will become a champion for the mascot issue rather than a "whipping boy". If you truly hate political correctness more than Dr. Cavness and myself combined, then stand with us.
 

prepballfan

There's No Place Like The Reservation Friday Night
Staff member
I have stated this many times we are called Indians because we were the home to the only Indian tribe in this area. This information along with that of respect for the Native American ways and heritages is the sole reasons why the Cherokee Nation bestowed the seal of the Cherokee Nation upon our humble school. There is know reason to change this. We do not take advantage of the Indian name in any way. We do not belittle or make light of the Native American heritage in our area or in this nation in any way. We also do not have a mascot that makes the Indian look silly or make fun of the way of the Native American. The people of Indian decent I know in this area have never lodged a complaint to my knowledge about the use of the name. So explain to me why a non-native American persons would care what we do here. Other than the reason of imposing their will and agenda on the people of our community. I say fight it to the end. This country has to stand up against this kind of aggression. The same type going on in Mizzou right now making them kids up their look like damn fools. We have to stop the nonsense. Take up real issues. I ask anyone of those kids to take up something of real value like homelessness of veterans. Medical care of vets. Protection of the poor and elderly from the inability to care for themselves. The poor and hungey children of this country. Any number of hundreds of issued that are real to America. Not what some highschool in the corner of Texas has for a mascot. Not about a 50 year old cross on a hill in a park. COme on people. Its time to make a statement in this counrty. GET OUT AND VOTE>>>>...>.!!!!!!!
 

NEXT GAMEDAY

5A DII REGIONAL ROUND

PN-G Indians (11-1)
vs.
Texas High Tigers (12-0)

Friday, Nov. 29, 7:00PM

Northwestern State University Turpin Stadium, Natchitoches, LA

PN-G INDIANS FOOTBALL

I could not be more proud of our team and our community. The spirit here is unmatched! I am so lucky to be a part of it and to wear the purple and white! The journey of this football season, with these coaches and our players, will stay with me forever.  -- PN-G Head Coach Jeff Joseph

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