What's going on at PN-G?

[bandkid]

Rumors of my disappearance from this site have been greatly exaggerated.

I've been keeping up with the Indians this year mostly through the Cool 92.5 broadcasts, Facebook and Jon Deckert's Twitter. I noticed early in the season that very few pictures showed the crowd, and on closer examination, I'm afraid I've discovered why. What few pictures of the crowd I can find have shown a lot of empty seats. My mother also mentioned this to me a few weeks ago.

It's been a consistent issue all season - it's not just one game. The Dayton game. The Crosby game. The Barbers Hill game tonight.

What's going on? I've made it to four or five games over the last three seasons. This wasn't an issue at any of them. This can't be just because Roschon's graduated.

 

[PNG Proud]

I think that RJ graduating is a big part of it. It's really odd, because, people get into a frenzy when it's time to buy season tickets, and they buy them... but don't attend??? I really don't get it.
i knw that stuff happens (I was in NC for a month for Dorian), but there a LOT of empty sats at the home games. AND... believe it or not... I bet there's a lot at the Nederland game too... We'll see.

 

[NDNmom91]

Yeah, this has to be the WORST attendance in YEARS...ugh! RJ being gone is probably a big factor, but the stands were pretty much always full every year before he came along...at least for home games. Athletes of his caliber don’t come around that often so I guess a lot of people came just to see him play, BUT not enough to justify the huge decline in attendance. I mean, it would be somewhat understandable for fans to pack the stands the last 3 years if we had gone through dismal years, with losing records prior to RJ, then abandon ship now that he’s gone. BUT that’s NOT the case! BF and staff have CONSISTENTLY fielded teams at the top of the district with decent playoff runs since he’s been here, so no reason to expect anything less now. However, I can say attendance has been significantly worse the past few weeks which could be due to the unusually cold windy weather we’ve had...I know I probably would’ve left early or stayed home and listened on the radio if I didn’t have my band kid keeping me there...lol! Idk...hoping I’m wrong, but seems like the Rez is losing the “intimidation” factor that once set us apart from all the others across the state! Still NO PLACE I’d rather be on a Friday Night though!

 

[IndianFan]

Rumors of my disappearance from this site have been greatly exaggerated.

I've been keeping up with the Indians this year mostly through the Cool 92.5 broadcasts, Facebook and Jon Deckert's Twitter. I noticed early in the season that very few pictures showed the crowd, and on closer examination, I'm afraid I've discovered why. What few pictures of the crowd I can find have shown a lot of empty seats. My mother also mentioned this to me a few weeks ago.

It's been a consistent issue all season - it's not just one game. The Dayton game. The Crosby game. The Barbers Hill game tonight.

What's going on? I've made it to four or five games over the last three seasons. This wasn't an issue at any of them. This can't be just because Roschon's graduated.

Bandkid,

Good to see you surface after an extended absence. No exaggerations, just out of site out of mind. But this message board is a better place with opinions and contributions from you and others, so please don't be a stranger.

I see this from a unique perspective. Being a grad who moved from Port Neches 35 years ago, I'm not a local. But Port Neches will always be what I consider my original home, and I will go up against any football fan in terms of having interest and maintaining historical perspective.

For the last 20 years or so I've been involved afar by offering and evolving this football site and message board. That's a level of commitment that provides some unique insights.

During that time I've 'seen' dozens of great PN-G supporters come and go over the last 2 decades. Moms, Dads, grandparents, students, community leaders, a few players, and many more.

In some ways I think this message board is a microcosm of interest shown by PN-G football fans in general. Although it could be argued that it's a small sample.

It's certain that life phases cause people's level of interest to ebb and flow.

At the risk of offending some, I'll go ahead and say that I think the greatest generations of PN-G football fans seem to have passed. Life changes for some and they move on. I could list many well respected, former visitors here but won't.

PN-G fans don't attend home games or away games at the level they once did. That can be objectively measured in ticket sales and the eyeball test of empty seats. The 'fanatical' support is just not there. If it is still there it's well hidden.

But it's still better than most schools and a lot of small colleges like Lamar.

And fans and alumni certainly don't utilize the web presence I've put together over the years.. Which, by the way, is as good as it gets on the high school level if you're looking for a football fix. Very few individuals have been consistently active over the 20 years of availability. A few of us here have outlived a lot.

But back to the question, what's going on. Or why. I've been wondering the same for years and have no conclusive answer.

Rather than singling out Indian fans, I personally think it's a culture shift in society at large.
Partly because of generational changes, and partly because of the many options we have to spend our free time.

That's been an ongoing trend at every level of sports. There are entire studies of Millennial behavior including lesser interest in attending or viewing sporting events. But I'm not a big believer in that kind of profiling and generalization.

Anyway, it's a complex subject with no easy answer.

Regardless, the porch light is always on here and every visit and opinion posted benefits the greater virtual community. Participation is encouraged.

This place will never be a popular destination for the knuckle-headed, disrespectful posters that like the area sites. Adult juvenile, smack attack mentality will never exist here. But I hope this is a place that Indian faithful always choose to visit and contribute content to.

It will likely always be here. But unlike my 'faith' in PN-G football, I definitely have lesser faith in the level of fan interest. The reason for keeping this web presence going is solely based on loyalty and commitment to the ideal of PN-G sports and community. But don't take for granted that the 'use it or lose it' rule will never apply here.

Go Indians.

 

[1989NDN]

I wrote the following in another thread, but it is worth repeating here:

It is not like the days of old. The crowds have been thinning out for years. People have more entertainment options and they attend the games using different platforms, e.g., radio, Internet, and the www.pngindians.com/message board. Unless PN-G makes a deep playoff run, I doubt you will see 20,000 and 30,000 fans showing up. Shifts in society happen, I guess.

Go Indians. Peace.


My expanded views, which are mine and mine only, and NOT that of www.pngindians.com: Demographics are changing in Port Neches and Groves. I'm not talking about race, color, or ethnicity. I'm talking about age. People are aging. Kids graduate. Families change addresses when kids move off to college or when kids start a new life in a community outside of Port Neches or Groves. Fewer and fewer families have repeat generations attending PN-GISD. New families are not moving into PN-GISD for the long term, and there is no commitment to community like there was in the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties. People are more mobile. You can work in town A and live in town B, no problem. Mobility and the Internet have created changes in small towns. Those are just facts. The workforce numbers at refineries in Jefferson and Orange counties are smaller than ever before. Mom and Pop shops are gone thanks to Wal-Mart, Costco, and online retailers/delivery services. Why shop at Mom and Pop stores when you can buy and click for one day delivery to your home? Groves is landlocked. Port Neches is mostly landlocked. People have entertainment options at their fingertips. In the next decade, HS football will evolve and allow for TV games and online streaming. It is happening in other parts of the country, e.g., California. I do not live in Groves, and I have not lived there for 30 years, but from the few times that I have visited there since the late eighties, I do not recognize the town. Abandoned businesses, churches, and homes. Rental properties all over the place. The Pea Patch is gone. Speir's grocery store on Main Avenue is gone. First Bank & Trust is gone. Movie theaters are gone. Other than prisons, nursing homes, and fast food restaurants, what is left? Why would a new family move there? The PN-GISD is outstanding. That attracts families, but not enough to offset the losses. Enrollment at PN-G used to be consistently in the 1,600 - 1,800 range. Now, it is goes back and forth between 1,400 - 1,500. Those 200 or 300+ students that are missing used to be in the band, Indianettes, play volleyball, drama, theater, etc. I can remember when the Indianettes had 75 - 100 girls. Now, they have 40. Students are finding other ways to spend their time, I guess. The good times and monster crowds of PN-G football are in the rear view mirror. Just my 0.02 cents. I hope that I am wrong. I'd be thrilled to be wrong. Groves, TX in the sixties, seventies, and eighties was a GREAT place to grow-up. I would not change a thing about that! I'm still in shock that WO-S has shruck from a 4A/5A school to a 3A school; or, that PAISD closed Thomas Jefferson, Lincoln, and SFA. Those were historical powerhouse schools. If WO-S can shrink to 3A and PA can lose TJ, Lincoln, and SFA, it can happen anywhere...including PN-G. Society shifts, I guess.

Go Indians. Peace. Exiting the soapbox...Elvis has left the building!

 

[prepballfan]

Great topic. The Indians fans will always be faithful.... maybe not to the extent we grew up watching, but they are there.

 

[NDNmom91]

Thanks for your insight Indianfan and 1989...definitely valid and realistic points! Like many, I grew up under the Fri Night Lights at the Rez and so have my kids. They both definitely knew how to spell I-N-D-I-A-N-S before they could spell their names...lol! I wish more than anything we could maintain that level of enthusiasm and rabid fan support forever, but as with all things in life...things change. Never thought I’d find myself saying “back in my day” to my kids but it happens on the regular...lol! Especially since I now have a band kid and some of my best memories are from my years in band when the Purple Pride was consistently one of the TOP high school bands in the STATE! Back when high school bands were judged primarily on the quality of music and marching...the “show” was more of a bonus feature...choreography and dancing ability was for the auxiliary groups. NOT ANYMORE...now days band kids gotta learn dance moves and put on a “Broadway Show” to be competitive...lol! But, as much as I prefer how it was “back in my day”...things have changed, and as long as my kid is having fun, making memories...I’ll adapt, eat my popcorn while cheering them on from my AWESOME seats, let him enjoy HIS TIME on The Reservation and relive the “glory days” of times past with all you “old timers”

 

[Mejabo]

I think there are some combined factors this year that has led to lower crowds. The first, as others have mentioned is losing one of the best QB's in the nation. I also think many fans are becoming complacent as we tend to win more than we lose and we just expect to win, crowd involvement or not. From the games I have gone to the only game where the crowd really got "into it" was the 2nd half of the Vidor game at midnight where all that was left was diehard fans.

Another factor is that our team has been struggling with injuries and it makes the games not as fun to watch when your QB gets pummeled over and over. There seems to be pretty big difference offensively from the first couple of games to where we are now due to injuries. Another factor is our district is pretty awful this year. We have Dayton and Santa Fe who struggle to win one game and the usual top teams are down significantly. There have not been really any "must see" powerhouse matchups and I think that has something to do with people wanting to come and watch the exciting games we're used to.

I think it's just a combination of factors that have led to this down year in attendance.

 

[PNG NDN Fan]

Interesting thread with some good points. I relocated for work after Hurricane Ike 10 years ago and now follow the Indians from the Tulsa area. I don’t post nearly as often as I used to, but do check the threads here.

The days of multiple generations staying in the area and going to the same high school are more the exception than the rule and that geographical boundaries are limiting factors - it was bound to happen eventually. Some days I find myself thinking about growing up in the area back in the 70s and 80s and how things have changed. I even found myself recently listening to this clip of KOLE AM radio from 1979 just relive that era for a few minutes.

Hope all are doing well!

 

[bandkid]

I’ve never stopped checking in. Various crises in Austin have just left me with little time to post the last few years.

I came home this weekend to handle a few things, and got to attend the Nederland game while I was here. Also invited an old law school buddy that just started with a firm in Houston, who’s spent the last four years hearing another classmate from Nederland and I square off every fall. I won’t lie; I was a little concerned about bringing a friend from outside the Golden Triangle. For a moment, I wasn’t sure if years of playing up PN-G’s atmosphere were about to backfire on me.

Well, always be faithful. PN-G did not disappoint, in the stands or on the field. If there was an empty seat in the visitors’ stands, I couldn’t see it, though I did spot some holes on the Nederland side. Even with the refs trying to hand Nederland the game (a point my neutral guest agreed with my father and I on, for what it’s worth), they never led, and the crowd never let up. I can’t speak to the PN-G of the 1970s, but I definitely saw the PN-G I grew up with Friday night. Wish I could say the same about Alabama this weekend, but that’s another story.

In any event, this thread raises several good points about why the attendance has been hit or miss this year. Roschon being gone is definitely a factor, and compounding that, I think, was an expectation at the onset of this season that the Indians would struggle more than they did. I was surprised when we beat Tomball in pre-district play, and equally surprised the loss to Huntsville wasn’t worse than it was. Bost has well exceeded my expectations, and the PN-G defense is much more scrappy (and I think, better coached) this season than it has been in previous years. The only loss I’m really disappointed with this season is our fall to Crosby, where it sounds like we got beat by the wind as much as anything else. I hated losing to Barbers Hill, but the Hill is actually for real this season (my fingers stung a little as I typed that) and we played them better than just about anyone else has. This year’s PN-G team was grittier than I expected. Again, always be faithful.

While I think everything previously mentioned is relevant, after talking it over with the folks, one of the factors I really think has played into this season’s attendance that I haven’t seen touched on yet is the make-up of our district. It was mentioned earlier that we haven’t played as many good teams this year as we’re used to. Dayton continues its downward spiral. Lee turned out to be a flop. Santa Fe still isn’t much on the gridiron. Nederland had a very bad season this year. Vidor also seemed less competitive than normal. Though they beat us, Crosby is a shadow of its former self. Barbers Hill is the only team we faced in district play deserving statewide attention.

One thing I don’t think should be overlooked in that assessment is how many of those teams aren’t local teams. It was mentioned earlier how shocking it is that West Orange has fallen a classification. It didn’t just happen to the Mustangs. When I was in high school, our district included Lumberton, LC-M and the two Beaumont schools. Lumberton and LC-M have fallen a classification, too. Ozen was on the verge of fallingwhen it was merged with Central to make United. Sure, we won the lion’s share of those games because three of those schools typically weren’t all that competitive, but there’s something to be said for local bragging rights. I always enjoyed whipping LC-M so I could rub it in cousins’ faces at Thanksgiving. And I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed angry stares at Market Baskets in Vidor and Lumberton when I’d walk in wearing a PN-G shirt. (I was more careful in Nederland. Never know when a car might run you over in the checkout line at that store.) I think there are a lot of PN-G fans who make it a point to see PN-G play other local teams for local reasons, too. My dad’s guilty of this kind of thing. There were a couple of WO-S games a few seasons ago he only attended to watch a co-worker’s kids play. Winning that one year was just an added benefit (and getting our butts handed to us the other year is the main reason he wouldn’t have gone otherwise).

Nowadays, five of our seven district opponents are more than 60 miles away. This year, two of our three pre-district opponents were nearly 130 miles away. When we don’t play many local teams, family and workplace rivalries are less of a factor and local fans have fewer reasons to make the drive. And when fans attend fewer regular season games against Golden Triangle teams, they’re less invested in our team when we play Chambers, Harris, Galveston and Liberty County teams. That’s not to say there isn’t good reason to play an exhibition game against a Houston area opponent, but it’s something to keep in mind. I think this was apparent this year, and I think the best evidence is the line you can draw between our attendance numbers against local teams versus non-local teams. We packed the house against Silsbee, Vidor and Nederland. We barely showed up to play Dayton, Crosby or Barbers Hill in our own backyard.

The good news is that, per some or my sources, Lumberton is poised to come back into our classification in the next realignment. Orangefield is also headed that direction (and on a personal note, I’m really going to enjoy Thanksgiving if that happens). I also hear United and Memorial may be dropping back down into our classification. So, if I’m right, we’ll hopefully see the trend reverse in the coming years. I’ll also point out that, while it was noted PN-G has shrunk since the 1990s, the elementary schools have been forced to add four teachers at every grade level across the district due to growth. Averaged out, that’s about a 20% jump in class size, and more is projected down the line. If that holds, we’ll probably be over 1,700 students at the high school within the next ten years.

Lastly, I saw the generational shift regarding interest in sporting events mentioned in this thread. That is definitely being felt at the college level. Texas is struggling to fill the student section right now. Alabama isn’t having trouble getting students to show up, but it is having trouble getting them to stick around for the whole game. That said, the student section has been the most crowded section in the PN-G stadium the last several games I’ve been to, and they’re a lot more active these days than they were when I was in school. They were absolutely rabid at the Nederland game. Whatever the national trend may be, I don’t think it’s hit home yet.

 

[ndnmom2boys]

There are so many season tickets bought by people that don’t attend games. I think it is great to want to keep them in the family but if they aren’t going to be used it’s just ridiculous. Player, band, cheerleader, twirler and Indianette parents would love to have those tickets. I will keep mine after my kids graduate but will always offer them to other parents if there are games we are unable to attend.

 

[Usedtocould]

I think it’s happening everywhere. My high school rivalry. (Very similar to MCM) was Texas High Vs Arkansas High) same town two states have played I think 100 + times and also used to play on Thanksgiving day. When I was in school similar to MCM it was difficult to get tickets. Near 15000 at the game stands packed elbow to elbow. The whole nine yards. Now there are huge patches of stands showing. I don’t think PNG is hurting most away attendance still usually outnumbers the home side sometimes by 2-3 times.

 

[bandkid]

Thought I’d share this picture here. I got it off Twitter from a PN-G fan who sat on the Nederland side.

Looks like she couldn’t find a seat on our side.

 

[IndianFan]

Thought I’d share this picture here. I got it off Twitter from a PN-G fan who sat on the Nederland side.

Looks like she couldn’t find a seat on our side.

Thanks for sharing the photo. The remarks about lower attendance apply more to non-MCM home games and away games. People just don't travel like they used to. Not even to NRG Stadium.

That's a great picture and reminds me that despite Nederlands fans affinity for talking about how small PN-G's visitor side is, Bulldog Stadium is about the same size. Both their home and visitor stands are similar in size to Indian Stadium's visitor side.