Crosby vs Liberty Hill

[IndianFan]

The ‘99 season was a special group of players on both sides of the ball. So was every other great season and team at PNG. 54-56, 74-77, 89 and 99. Those types of players in that quantity don’t come around every season.

 

[IndianFan]

 

[1989NDN]

and has a made the state finals

I'm guessing he sends Mike and Dustin Long a Christmas card every year saying thank you. Credit to him for hiring Mike Long with Dustin in the 8th or 9th grade. W/L with Dustin Long 30-7. Before and after Dustin Long 66-58. Counterpoint favoring MB, he had a superstar and made it to state. Coach Faircloth had Roschon Johnson and could not reach the state title game. Fair point. The evidence still favors Coach Faircloth if you examine the entire body of work. If you widen the examination, I'm not aware of PN-G winning a state title in any sport during 1994-2008. 2009-Present, 1 state title in baseball. Credit to Coach Scott Carter and the players. Good discussion.

 

[bandkid]

Now feels like a good time to reiterate that there wasn’t the disparity between rural, small town programs and suburban programs we have now back in 1999. Look at the 5A programs that have made it to the state finals the last several years. Aledo. Liberty Hill. Westlake. Crosby. Cedar Park. Highland Park. What do they all have in common that PN-G doesn’t?

Exactly four Golden Triangle-area programs have made it to the state championship in the last fifteen years: Kirbyville, Newton, West Orange-Stark and West Brook. Three of those programs are in low level UIL classifications with virtually no suburban Texas schools to speak of. West Brook is the only team that’s managed to beat the odds and prevail over suburban Texas to get there. They did it once, on a team loaded with more D1 talent than PN-G’s ever had. As I stated in an earlier post, no Golden Triangle team in the same classification as PN-G has made it to the big dance in more than 20 years - another significant difference from past eras of PN-G greatness, when PN-G’s Golden Triangle-area peers of comparable size like TJ, Lincoln, WO-S and the Beaumont schools all made the same semi-regular runs at the state championship PN-G did.

I have nothing but respect for Coach Burnett and the entire Burnett family, but I have no idea why we keep referring back to him at this point. Coach Faircloth’s success at PN-G relative to prior PN-G coaches has been made plain time and time again in these threads. He’s produced more wins, more college recruits, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins and more winning seasons than every other coach PN-G has ever had. He’s produced the best win ratio of any PN-G coach in thirty years, the most consistent string of deep playoff runs of any PN-G coach in more than forty years, and multiple statistical all-time records besting everything PN-G’s produced in its 96 year history. All of that is beyond dispute - the numbers simply do not lie. There’s nothing left to debate on that point.

If the school board or administration really is reconsidering Faircloth’s future, the issue before this community isn’t simply how he compares to past PN-G coaches. The issue is how PN-G’s athletics department is performing relative to the rest of the state now. Not in the ‘50s. Not in the ‘70s. Not in 1999. Now.

Three separate players seeing time on the field at the state’s two flagship college football programs? Multiple players finding success in FCS play at Lamar, Henderson State and the like? A baseball state championship, and a member of that team making serious waves at Texas A&M? A school record 39 All State players and an All American in thirteen seasons? Nine straight playoff appearances, four of which went three rounds deep over a six year stretch? Taking a team Dave Campbell didn’t think would even make the playoffs to the regional semi-final, and beating an undefeated, top ten team along the way to be the last third seed team left standing anywhere in Texas? Both of the school’s soccer programs going four rounds deep multiple seasons? There aren’t many 5A high schools in Texas today that can claim all of that, and fewer still when you get outside the suburbs. That is an astounding level of success for a program in PN-G’s position, with PN-G’s resources and the level of talent PN-G is typically able to field. Whether or not that’s underperforming expectations left over from a very different era of Texas high school athletics, it indisputably is overperforming modern-day reality.

It would be ludicrous for this community to willingly give up the kind of leadership that has managed this kind of success against all the odds. It would, frankly, be foolish to do so for the sake of local politics. And to reiterate another point made several times over, nobody knows that better than every high school coach in the state with a worthwhile skill set PN-G would try to recruit after running Coach Faircloth off.

I remain skeptical of all of these rumors, but if it really is true that Faircloth’s tenure at PN-G is on the line, this community has some serious soul-searching to do, and some important decisions to make. I suggest it think them over carefully, and choose wisely.

 

[Justafan]

who has done that lately

We don’t have the talent to make state runs every year. If not for Mike and Dustin Long we would’ve of made it in 99.

 

[Usedtocould]

Now feels like a good time to reiterate that there wasn’t the disparity between rural, small town programs and suburban programs we have now back in 1999. Look at the 5A programs that have made it to the state finals the last several years. Aledo. Liberty Hill. Westlake. Crosby. Cedar Park. Highland Park. What do they all have in common that PN-G doesn’t?

Exactly four Golden Triangle-area programs have made it to the state championship in the last fifteen years: Kirbyville, Newton, West Orange-Stark and West Brook. Three of those programs are in low level UIL classifications with virtually no suburban Texas schools to speak of. West Brook is the only team that’s managed to beat the odds and prevail over suburban Texas to get there. They did it once, on a team loaded with more D1 talent than PN-G’s ever had. As I stated in an earlier post, no Golden Triangle team in the same classification as PN-G has made it to the big dance in more than 20 years - another significant difference from past eras of PN-G greatness, when PN-G’s Golden Triangle-area peers of comparable size like TJ, Lincoln, WO-S and the Beaumont schools all made the same semi-regular runs at the state championship PN-G did.

I have nothing but respect for Coach Burnett and the entire Burnett family, but I have no idea why we keep referring back to him at this point. Coach Faircloth’s success at PN-G relative to prior PN-G coaches has been made plain time and time again in these threads. He’s produced more wins, more college recruits, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins and more winning seasons than every other coach PN-G has ever had. He’s produced the best win ratio of any PN-G coach in thirty years, the most consistent string of deep playoff runs of any PN-G coach in more than forty years, and multiple statistical all-time records besting everything PN-G’s produced in its 96 year history. All of that is beyond dispute - the numbers simply do not lie. There’s nothing left to debate on that point.

If the school board or administration really is reconsidering Faircloth’s future, the issue before this community isn’t simply how he compares to past PN-G coaches. The issue is how PN-G’s athletics department is performing relative to the rest of the state now. Not in the ‘50s. Not in the ‘70s. Not in 1999. Now.

Three separate players seeing time on the field at the state’s two flagship college football programs? Multiple players finding success in FCS play at Lamar, Henderson State and the like? A baseball state championship, and a member of that team making serious waves at Texas A&M? A school record 39 All State players and an All American in thirteen seasons? Nine straight playoff appearances, four of which went three rounds deep over a six year stretch? Taking a team Dave Campbell didn’t think would even make the playoffs to the regional semi-final, and beating an undefeated, top ten team along the way to be the last third seed team left standing anywhere in Texas? Both of the school’s soccer programs going four rounds deep multiple seasons? There aren’t many 5A high schools in Texas today that can claim all of that, and fewer still when you get outside the suburbs. That is an astounding level of success for a program in PN-G’s position, with PN-G’s resources and the level of talent PN-G is typically able to field. Whether or not that’s underperforming expectations left over from a very different era of Texas high school athletics, it indisputably is overperforming modern-day reality.

It would be ludicrous for this community to willingly give up the kind of leadership that has managed this kind of success against all the odds. It would, frankly, be foolish to do so for the sake of local politics. And to reiterate another point made several times over, nobody knows that better than every high school coach in the state with a worthwhile skill set PN-G would try to recruit after running Coach Faircloth off.

I remain skeptical of all of these rumors, but if it really is true that Faircloth’s tenure at PN-G is on the line, this community has some serious soul-searching to do, and some important decisions to make. I suggest it think them over carefully, and choose wisely.

Westbrook vs Longview 3 years ago in finals FYI.

 

[Usedtocould]

We have a CHANCE next year as long as Faircloth is still here. What irony that would be.

 

[IndianFan]

We have a CHANCE next year as long as Faircloth is still here. What irony that would be.

Yes. Just fix the defense. Better pass coverage training, more tackling exercises, more off-season strength and conditioning work. And find a middle linebacker that knows how to play the position and that can tackle. Plug the leaks and good results can happen. There is no other way.

 

[bandkid]

Westbrook vs Longview 3 years ago in finals FYI.

Yes. That’s why I mentioned West Brook in the post.

 

[Usedtocould]

I’d also like to see a deep I package with a massive FB like—- Aw Dern the big fast OT name is escaping me at the moment. Use him for added pass protection as well I’m a die hard I formation fan lol. I guess that died in the 90s except for Carthage ran /runs the heck out of it especially a few years ago. Dead horse alert. I’d try to include every player in uniform in a meaningful way. In practice and games. Take the guys who rarely see playing time except maybe KO coverage and run a secondary offensive scheme even if it’s ONLY trick plays.
I’m not claiming to be a coaching genius though. Lol

 

[IndianFan]

Another huge factor is that most of those small town/now suburban schools are near metro areas with great job prospects. Areas like where I live that were once small, rural towns and now a giant ‘suburb’ area on the outskirts of yet another democratic run, high crime, big city that many don’t want to live in. A lot of these areas like Westlake. Highland Park , Plano, Frisco and others are home to lots of wealthy parents and contributors that can provide the best for a program. Indoor practice facilities, etc. Families with aspiring superstar athletes are drawn to those places like magnets.

On the other hand the ‘Golden Triangle’ is contracting (oh the irony of that word) with aging infrastructure, fewer high paying jobs and aging population. And with a landlocked area, especially PN, there aren’t a lot of nicer homes available for young families to move in even if they wanted to. Groves seems to be in a state of even more decline. So while PNG remains a great district to live in for parents and kids, it has challenges that some don’t have to overcome.

You might even consider PN, Groves and Nederland to be out of that same mold. They started as small towns but also became suburbs of Port Arthur as it has aged and declined towards higher crime. Or maybe the separate towns are just morphing together since the land area is small.

 

[IndianFan]

I’d also like to see a deep I package with a massive FB like—- Aw Dern the big fast OT name is escaping me at the moment. Use him for added pass protection as well I’m a die hard I formation fan lol. I guess that died in the 90s except for Carthage ran /runs the heck out of it especially a few years ago. Dead horse alert. I’d try to include every player in uniform in a meaningful way. In practice and games. Take the guys who rarely see playing time except maybe KO coverage and run a secondary offensive scheme even if it’s ONLY trick plays.
I’m not claiming to be a coaching genius though. Lol

The I formation arrived with Ethridge in 1973 and ended with Burnett in 2008.

Does anyone remember Jake Hemmings? He’s the back that ran like a tank and sent the LC-M tackler flying backwards through the air when he tried to tackle him. 2005-2007. Would be interesting to see a big, tough back again. W don’t see many backs like that in PN. Josh Cook was another before him that was big and fast.

 

[NDNzeke]

The I formation arrived with Ethridge in 1973 and ended with Burnett in 2008.

Does anyone remember Jake Hemmings? He’s the back that ran like a tank and sent the LC-M tackler flying backwards through the air when he tried to tackle him. 2005-2007. Would be interesting to see a big, tough back again. W don’t see many backs like that in PN. Josh Cook was another before him that was big and fast.

Will never forget Hemmings or Cook OR Bo Wortham, the latter of whom’s running style complimented Bergeron’s so well.

 

[bandkid]

Another huge factor is that most of those small town/now suburban schools are near metro areas with great job prospects. Areas like where I live that were once small, rural towns and now a giant ‘suburb’ area on the outskirts of yet another democratic run, high crime, big city that many don’t want to live in. A lot of these areas like Westlake. Highland Park , Plano, Frisco and others are home to lots of wealthy parents and contributors that can provide the best for a program. Indoor practice facilities, etc. Families with aspiring superstar athletes are drawn to those places like magnets.

On the other hand the ‘Golden Triangle’ is contracting (oh the irony of that word) with aging infrastructure, fewer high paying jobs and aging population. And with a landlocked area, especially PN, there aren’t a lot of nicer homes available for young families to move in even if they wanted to. Groves seems to be in a state of even more decline. So while PNG remains a great district to live in for parents and kids, it has challenges that some don’t have to overcome.

You might even consider PN, Groves and Nederland to be out of that same mold. They started as small towns but also became suburbs of Port Arthur as it has aged and declined towards higher crime. Or maybe the separate towns are just morphing together since the land area is small.

There’s definitely an argument to be made that the Mid-County cities were suburbs before suburbs were cool. PN-G benefitted quite a bit from families moving out of Port Arthur. And teachers, for that matter; some of the best PN-G teachers I had from 2007 to 2011 started their careers at TJ in the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s.

With respect to the broader economic and social issues, I’m not ready to write off the Golden Triangle wholesale just yet. Groves and Nederland managed to show population growth on the 2020 census slightly above the national average. Port Neches was right below it. Proportionally speaking, Bridge City and Lumberton showed very strong growth (though the raw numbers were on par with Mid-County), and Port Arthur showed appreciable growth. All of those areas have new housing additions going up. The Trump years were the most prosperous Southeast Texas has seen in decades; 2019 saw Jefferson County’s unemployment rate drop below 5% for the first time at least since the Department of Labor started measuring the statistic in the ‘60s. It was also the first year in my lifetime that I could drive down Port Neches Avenue and see nearly every storefront occupied.

The state demographer’s office will tell you Jefferson County is itself expected to become a Houston suburb by 2050. That may sound absurd, but Mont Belvieu becoming a suburb sounded absurd twenty years ago. I take the points about the refineries employing fewer people and contracting out to heart, but I also recognize that there’s tremendous long term economic potential in Jefferson County between the port expansion currently underway and the future of the American natural gas industry. I also expect, in the near future, to see the Golden Triangle return to statewide political relevance for the first time in thirty years. We just have to finally reach the post-COVID era, and elect a presidential administration run by people who don’t hate rural Americans and the oil and gas industry.

If you want to talk about the real problems in Southeast Texas right now, let’s talk about Beaumont. But that’s a conversation for another time.

 

[Justafan]

I look for PNG to be 4A Div 1 in the not so distant future.

 

[Torino]

Now feels like a good time to reiterate that there wasn’t the disparity between rural, small town programs and suburban programs we have now back in 1999. Look at the 5A programs that have made it to the state finals the last several years. Aledo. Liberty Hill. Westlake. Crosby. Cedar Park. Highland Park. What do they all have in common that PN-G doesn’t?

Exactly four Golden Triangle-area programs have made it to the state championship in the last fifteen years: Kirbyville, Newton, West Orange-Stark and West Brook. Three of those programs are in low level UIL classifications with virtually no suburban Texas schools to speak of. West Brook is the only team that’s managed to beat the odds and prevail over suburban Texas to get there. They did it once, on a team loaded with more D1 talent than PN-G’s ever had. As I stated in an earlier post, no Golden Triangle team in the same classification as PN-G has made it to the big dance in more than 20 years - another significant difference from past eras of PN-G greatness, when PN-G’s Golden Triangle-area peers of comparable size like TJ, Lincoln, WO-S and the Beaumont schools all made the same semi-regular runs at the state championship PN-G did.

I have nothing but respect for Coach Burnett and the entire Burnett family, but I have no idea why we keep referring back to him at this point. Coach Faircloth’s success at PN-G relative to prior PN-G coaches has been made plain time and time again in these threads. He’s produced more wins, more college recruits, more playoff appearances, more playoff wins and more winning seasons than every other coach PN-G has ever had. He’s produced the best win ratio of any PN-G coach in thirty years, the most consistent string of deep playoff runs of any PN-G coach in more than forty years, and multiple statistical all-time records besting everything PN-G’s produced in its 96 year history. All of that is beyond dispute - the numbers simply do not lie. There’s nothing left to debate on that point.

If the school board or administration really is reconsidering Faircloth’s future, the issue before this community isn’t simply how he compares to past PN-G coaches. The issue is how PN-G’s athletics department is performing relative to the rest of the state now. Not in the ‘50s. Not in the ‘70s. Not in 1999. Now.

Three separate players seeing time on the field at the state’s two flagship college football programs? Multiple players finding success in FCS play at Lamar, Henderson State and the like? A baseball state championship, and a member of that team making serious waves at Texas A&M? A school record 39 All State players and an All American in thirteen seasons? Nine straight playoff appearances, four of which went three rounds deep over a six year stretch? Taking a team Dave Campbell didn’t think would even make the playoffs to the regional semi-final, and beating an undefeated, top ten team along the way to be the last third seed team left standing anywhere in Texas? Both of the school’s soccer programs going four rounds deep multiple seasons? There aren’t many 5A high schools in Texas today that can claim all of that, and fewer still when you get outside the suburbs. That is an astounding level of success for a program in PN-G’s position, with PN-G’s resources and the level of talent PN-G is typically able to field. Whether or not that’s underperforming expectations left over from a very different era of Texas high school athletics, it indisputably is overperforming modern-day reality.

It would be ludicrous for this community to willingly give up the kind of leadership that has managed this kind of success against all the odds. It would, frankly, be foolish to do so for the sake of local politics. And to reiterate another point made several times over, nobody knows that better than every high school coach in the state with a worthwhile skill set PN-G would try to recruit after running Coach Faircloth off.

I remain skeptical of all of these rumors, but if it really is true that Faircloth’s tenure at PN-G is on the line, this community has some serious soul-searching to do, and some important decisions to make. I suggest it think them over carefully, and choose wisely.

The factor common to the school districts you mentioned is their proximity to LARGE metro areas. Parents with good jobs can move to those districts and keep their jobs. Same at Brock, Denton, Katy, Southlake, Fort Bend/Sugarland. However, parents with good jobs who live in those large metros and would like their son to develop as a QB under Coach Faircloth will have problems finding comparable employment here.

 

[IndianFan]

The factor common to the school districts you mentioned is their proximity to LARGE metro areas. Parents with good jobs can move to those districts and keep their jobs. Same at Brock, Denton, Katy, Southlake, Fort Bend/Sugarland. However, parents with good jobs who live in those large metros and would like their son to develop as a QB under Coach Faircloth will have problems finding comparable employment here.

True. No comparison in job opportunities and the reason I moved away. But with many enterprises finally evolving and allowing remote work, there is more hope.

 

[Torino]

I look for PNG to be 4A Div 1 in the not so distant future.

I hope you are correct but the HS enrollment has increased each of the last 2 years.

 

[Justafan]

Not by much.

 

[Usedtocould]

PNG is the definition of a football “town” (two football towns) to me. When I watch Aledo Argyle Liberty Hill (I’ve seen all live within the last 5 years) (dead horse warning) I see the 5’6 160 kids going nuts in some role disciplined and with a purpose. (The 9the graders put in the work knowing they’ll be needed) That’s all PNG is lacking - (don’t get me wrong there are a lot of those kids at PNG it’s what makes them great)(just need more) those schools don’t have tons of D1 talent but if you put on a uniform you have game pressure on you from day one. Get a few more baseball and basketball kids and tuba players to contribute
Less leaning on the stars (keep em coming)