PNG's Next Coach.....

HSFB

Active Member
In my opinion, I feel that PN-G needs two things to make them a successful consistent winning program with the potential to do something big every 2 or 3 years. Number one is having the right offensive scheme in place and number two is having the right coach that will DEMAND execution and discipline on every single play….a hard-nosed play to the whistle mentality. My picks for scheme and coach are listed at the end.

Offensive Schemes:
What will NOT work……
The I formation: This only works if you have a team with equal or greater talent than your opponent. Unless you can lineup and blow people off the ball to setup play action then you are usually in for a long night unless you have greater talent. If this O has become predictable for the casual fan then you know that D coordinators eat it up. Now anyone who has watched the Katy Tigers blow people off the line and win state titles for years might say differently but Katy usually has the maulers up front to pull this off.

The Spread: When first introduced, this O was good for teams with lesser talent as it helped them compete if they properly executed this new scheme. This is no longer the case as D Coordinators have caught up on how to defend the spread. You also have to have the right QB to process information quickly & make the right decisions and we all know how hard it is to find that person year-in and year-out. You could have all the pieces of the puzzle in place and still not perform well due to a down year for QB’s.
A disclaimer to this is that every once in awhile you have a talented group of kids who come up that would probably win in most schemes. What you need is a scheme/system in place that will allow you to be successful in years when the talent pool is not so deep. This coupled with the right “motivator” is the foundation for a solid program.

Coaching Candidates:
Coaches who have been successful in regions where his program had the superior athletes most of the time. There are some Regions in the state where the overall football is not as strong as others. Some schools in these Regions serve as a magnet for the better athletes and they pretty much pound everyone else. That will not work at PNG as you have to compete with the Beaumont and Houston schools. Football is king in the Golden Triangle and it’s a dog eat dog world in the area. Do not give me someone who has won in a “weak” region as that will not fly around the Triangle.

Beware of the “the comfortable coach/hire”: This is the coach that everyone knows who may have had some success in the area or maybe even coached at PNG in some capacity when the team was successful. I can promise you that if that person comes in and runs the I, spread, or a variation there-of then they will probably only produce when the talent level is strong. You can probably even look back at those successful teams and there would be a roll call of highly competitive athletes that would have won in most situations. Do not get sucked in by the allure of glory days. The “comfortable coach” usually has the most momentum due to it being a know product. The comfortable coach will also most likely make fewer changes within the program so naturally will garner the support of the structure in place.

Ok, I’m rambling a little so I will get down to what I think the program needs from a scheme and coach perspective.

The right Offensive Scheme: Run the Slot-T offense.
This is nothing new but what was old has become new again in that some teams are winning big with it. Some of the benefits are:
• You can win when you do not have the athletes your opponents do. I have seen more physical and athletic teams get beat by teams running this scheme with the right execution. It’s a beautiful thing to watch and almost unstoppable if run correctly.
• Extremely deceptive. I have seen the Slot-T many times and I have a really hard time picking up where the ball is going and that’s with a good vantage point.
• I believe that this concept would be kind of new to the Triangle area thus making it a nightmare for D coordinators to prepare for. This kills D’s that are not disciplined in their responsibilities.
• It is not QB dependent. Gone are the days of bellyaching about not having the right QB.

The right Coach to run this is……Jerry Vance of Liberty Hill.
His variation of the Slot-T offensive has been, by far, the most successful in the state. He demands the right execution and discipline throughout the program.
State Championships in 2006, 2007 and State Final in 2008. Again, this was often accomplished when his teams were outmanned from and talent perspective & the odds were against him. That is what you are looking for. Do not settle for someone who wins when everything is perfectly aligned.
His teams play with high-energy aggressiveness until the whistle blows. His boys are not always the better athletes but they fight hard on every single play & just start wearing on their opponents. It is a hardnosed play to the whistle mentality that takes a toll on their opponents. Do not be sucked in by a coach who can talk the talk. You need someone who has proven it on the field and that is Vance.

For more information you can Google Liberty Hill Panthers or check out some videos off of youtube.com under Liberty Hill Panthers. You can find info. on the Slot-T on the internet as well. There is plenty of information out there available.

These are just my humble opinions and I’m not going to be pulled in to an argument by a hyper-sensitive individual. We will just have to respectively agree to disagree.

<Pinning topic to top... IF>
 

IndianFan

Administrator
Staff member
All very good points. Discipline, execution and intensity have always been the hallmark of previous great PNG teams that were almost always out manned.

I'd like to see a coach that can adjust and take advantage of an opponents weakness. To me that's what will win games for PN-G.
 

Justafan

2,000+ Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ2G2RzTWW4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCEwi5B9JQc&feature=related
 

Smurf

Active Member
Although I disagree, this was a good, well thought out post. I don't know if the "weak region is the only reason Danaher succeeded" argument is going to hold. Although this region is the weakest in the state, you have to eliminate another region before reaching the semifinals. That would be the same region Liberty Hill is located in.
 

Smurf

Active Member
Also, some credit needs to be given to his offensive coordinator, Jeff Walker, during his two title runs. Jeff took a HC position at nearby Rogers and took them to the playoffs his first year. Jeff was an all-state full back at, guess where...Calallen.
 

1989NDN

2,500+ Posts
Staff member
PN-G ran versions of the Wing-T from 1973-1988 (Doug Ethridge and Butch Troy). The Indians were successful under Doug Ethridge when the right QB was in place ... Richy Ethridge, David Fry, and Donnie Schexnaider in the 1970s and Denny Duhon in the 1980s. And, it helped tremendously that the Indians had a big powerful RB like Justin Eicher. PN-G had little success in 5A and 4A with the Wing-T during the 1980s. The 1980s brought about throwing the ball downfield. Why run for 3 yards and a cloud of dust when you can throw it downfield for 30 yards? PN-G will have a few good athletes ... other kids will need to be developed for the skilled positions. We need a coach who can develop kids and get the most athletic ability out of them. Katy runs from the I-formation, the pro set, the 5-wide shotgun, and various other sets. True, the Tigers have great numbers of warm bodies that want to play football and they develop very big and skilled OL players. But, they are not a one-dimensional offensive team. They can spread the ball around. Art Briles at Stephenville ran variations of the veer, the pro set, and the spread offense. North Shore does the same. David Aymond and his North Shore Mustangs will run from power sets, the I-formation, pro-sets, and then drop the QB back in the shotgun and spread the field with 4 and 5 wide. Other teams take a look at their personnel and run schemes that fit their personnel ... see WO-S and Nederland.

I vote for a coach that will spread the field, sling the ball around, then mix-it up and go to pro-set or I-formation, or the power game with different sets, inlcuding the Wing-T. We need to have a coach that can teach, motivate, and develop the talent attending PN-G. The coach from Liberty Hill be may the guy ... if so, great. We just need someone that wants to be at PN-G and someone that will work with and develop the kids we have. In TX HS football, it is amazing what you can do when you have a skilled QB and some hardworking kids in supporting roles. That was Doug Ethridge's recipe for success ... MB's glory years with Dustin Long and those Stephenville teams of the 1990s had very good QBs, hardworking kids in the trenches, and hardworking "play your butt-off" kids at RB, WR, LB, and DB.

Sling the ball downfield and mix it up from the spread to other sets ... Craig Stump may be the guy to do that best. If not, then whoever gets the nod to be the HC for the Indians will have thousands of fans, students, and alumni cheering and supporting him and the good kids at PN-G. I think the days of 1 system (e.g., Wing-T only) are over ... you have to be versatile and run multiple systems to fit the kids you have.

Good topic ... HSFB coach. I hope you come back and post more. It will be interesting to read other posters thoughts, opinions, and ideas. Good stuff.

Go Indians. Peace.
 

pngfan66

500+ Posts
I have to agree that mixing up the offense would work best. Here is a big question: Why would Vance want to leave Liberty Hill after what he has developed there ? Could it be as some others have mentioned that both he, Vance and the coach from CCC are just using PNG for a raise at their respective schools ? I would think that as fans, parents and tax payers, we should also look a little deeper down the list just in case the wool is pulled over our eyes !
 

PNGIndianFan06

100+ Posts
I would love to see a coach come in from outside our region that would mix things up and keep the other teams guessing. I am looking forward to some exciting football next season. Only 7 months till scrimmages!!! LOL
 

ndnsrock44

100+ Posts
The more I watch Liberty Hill the more I like them. Coach Vance looks like the guy to me, Our kids are already used to running the football, so it would be a easier adjustment than some other systems. Watching film of them, they do throw the ball and throw it downfield. One of our shortcomings over the past few years is that we were so hard-headed running the ball, but never used play action in the passing game. Which makes no sense to me. Watching LH, they take advantage of defenses coming up to stop the run with play action. I don't know how you argue with back to back state champions and a trip to the semi-finals. Vance's team seems to be very disciplined, hard nosed and unquestionably execute to near perfection. If this guy will come here, let's do what it takes to get him. If we do, don't make any plans for December weekends....they will be reserved for playoff trips!
 
N

NDNPARENT

Guest
for a QB to be sucussful he needs a good offensive line that can give him time to scan the field . The QB need to be taught to pump the ball to freeze the LB'S/DB'S. QB should not hold the ball for more that 5 seconds then he needs to either tuck it and run , hand it off, or pass to TE. Without a good line that blocks , no matter what scheme you use , the QB will not have the time to throw or RB to get out of the backfield.

Coaches need to teach the WR/TE to go up the field pass the yard marker on 3rd down to insure a first down pass, not need to pass the ball 2 yrs or more under and have the WR/TE/RB to try to get the yards for the first. See it in HS,COL, and PRO and do not understand why they do not go down pass the yard marker.

Defensive i would like to see an aggresive defence. I like the idia of blitzing, need to have a LB or CB blitz on most downs. The line needs to come off the ball strong and hard, or use a little razzle dazzle to move pass the Offensive blocker, like twisting around, slow off the snap where the O line is a yard up the field , that way the D linemen can side step and hit the hole when RB comes through. in other words or D ines need to have the MANSTER mentally!
 

squaw

1,000+ Posts
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but the question really should be "Does Danaher or Vance really want to come here or are they fishing for something from the school districts where they are currently employed? I would be absolutely thrilled to hire either one of these coaches. They are proven leaders and motivators. I don't care what offense they use as long as the job (winning) gets done. My fingers are crossed.
 

Smurf

Active Member
Here is a clip that shows Calallen's offense. As you can see...this was no "3 yard and a cloud of dust" offense.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9FREV03tyM
 

ndnsrock44

100+ Posts
squaw.. I can see Danaher using us to get something from Calallen but not Vance. Danaher would not get more money here, so unless he just wants a change of venue there are no obvious benefits coming here. He is coaching a 4A high profile established program. Vance, on the other hand, would be moving up in classification and a possible pay raise. I am not sure what Vance makes or what the facilities at Liberty Hill are. But I find it hard to believe that LH has better facilities or a bigger fan base than PNG. Having said that, I hope that both of them are serious about coming here. Obviously, either one would be a great hire. I just believe that Vance is more plausible.
 

Smurf

Active Member
ndnsrock44 said:
squaw.. I can see Danaher using us to get something from Calallen but not Vance. Danaher would not get more money here, so unless he just wants a change of venue there are no obvious benefits coming here. He is coaching a 4A high profile established program. Vance, on the other hand, would be moving up in classification and a possible pay raise. I am not sure what Vance makes or what the facilities at Liberty Hill are. But I find it hard to believe that LH has better facilities or a bigger fan base than PNG. Having said that, I hope that both of them are serious about coming here. Obviously, either one would be a great hire. I just believe that Vance is more plausible.

Danaher is NOT using an application to PNG to get more money out of his current school district. You can speculate all you want, but it's not true. I know him and I had a hand in recruiting him for our program. His reasons have been posted many times throughout this message board, so please stop posting false information.
 

ndnsrock44

100+ Posts
Smurf.... I think you need to read my post again. I am not "spreading false information". I was simply responding to squaw's earlier post. If you read the post, I am not claiming to have some insider info like many others on this board claim. I was just posting my thoughts on what squaw said. I also stated that I hope Danaher and Vance are both serious about coming here. They would both be great. Danaher would be an unbelievable hire. This is a message board where people state opinions, don't be so sensitive. I am about PNG getting the best coach possible, I couldn't care less about the politics that go behind the hiring. Also, people on this board need to stop taking themselves so seriously. I doubt Danaher or Vance give a crap what we post on here and certainly won't take what is posted here into consideration when making their decision.
 

squaw

1,000+ Posts
Smurf said:
ndnsrock44 said:
squaw.. I can see Danaher using us to get something from Calallen but not Vance. Danaher would not get more money here, so unless he just wants a change of venue there are no obvious benefits coming here. He is coaching a 4A high profile established program. Vance, on the other hand, would be moving up in classification and a possible pay raise. I am not sure what Vance makes or what the facilities at Liberty Hill are. But I find it hard to believe that LH has better facilities or a bigger fan base than PNG. Having said that, I hope that both of them are serious about coming here. Obviously, either one would be a great hire. I just believe that Vance is more plausible.

Danaher is NOT using an application to PNG to get more money out of his current school district. You can speculate all you want, but it's not true. I know him and I had a hand in recruiting him for our program. His reasons have been posted many times throughout this message board, so please stop posting false information.
I didn't say he was---read my post again. I've wanted him since the beginning. I was asking.
 

EX79NDN

100+ Posts
NDNPARENT said:
for a QB to be sucussful he needs a good offensive line that can give him time to scan the field . The QB need to be taught to pump the ball to freeze the LB'S/DB'S. QB should not hold the ball for more that 5 seconds then he needs to either tuck it and run , hand it off, or pass to TE. Without a good line that blocks , no matter what scheme you use , the QB will not have the time to throw or RB to get out of the backfield.

Coaches need to teach the WR/TE to go up the field pass the yard marker on 3rd down to insure a first down pass, not need to pass the ball 2 yrs or more under and have the WR/TE/RB to try to get the yards for the first. See it in HS,COL, and PRO and do not understand why they do not go down pass the yard marker.

Defensive i would like to see an aggresive defence. I like the idia of blitzing, need to have a LB or CB blitz on most downs. The line needs to come off the ball strong and hard, or use a little razzle dazzle to move pass the Offensive blocker, like twisting around, slow off the snap where the O line is a yard up the field , that way the D linemen can side step and hit the hole when RB comes through. in other words or D ines need to have the MANSTER mentally!

My husband is an ex pro football player from way back when. One of the things he has always said is that the QB and the TE/WR need to be in total sink with each other. He has always said it is all about timing. He would also tell me that a real good QB should be able to pass to his TE/WR blind folded. If the QB is counting right and the TE/WR is counting right they should be on the same page and he should get the ball to his TE/WR everytime. I know that when my step son was young, my husband hung an old tire in a tree. He first started out swinging the tire back and fourth. He would tell my step son to pass and loop the hole in the tire. Once my step son mastered that, then he would not only swing the tire back and fourth, he would also spin it. He would than tell my step son to loop the hole. My step son finally mastered that, but to this day he would tell me that was the hardest thing he had to do. But my step son could throw a football anywhere and under any conditions my husband told him to throw it.

I do not normally get on here and talk football logistics, but seems to me in years pass more fathers spent more time with their sons helping them learn football at a younger age. It wasn't all left up to the coaches when they got in school. Maybe I am wrong, but I was raised only two houses down from Denny Duhon. From a young boy Denny would be in the front yard practicing football everytime he had some free time. He was not inside watching TV or playing video games. Denny lived and breathed football from the time he could walk. Once Denny got up in school years, it was easy for a coach to take him and do noting but fine tune him. Denny wanted to learn. I do not see much of that anymore. Driving around the neighborhoods, how many boys do you see out in the yards playing football in their free time? That is one thing that is wrong with football today. The heart and soul is not there. The wanting the glitz and glamour is, but not the heart and soul. :helmet:
 

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I could not be more proud of our team and our community. The spirit here is unmatched! I am so lucky to be a part of it and to wear the purple and white! The journey of this football season, with these coaches and our players, will stay with me forever.  -- PN-G Head Coach Jeff Joseph

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